Date: 16 March 2003 15:40
Subject: Re: 437 Words about the US MNT and its' future...
In article <email@example.com>,
firstname.lastname@example.org (M Kinstlinger) wrote:
> If memory serves, (Im new to the int'l scene) Hungary was a dominant
> power in the mid 1900s, and havent been heard from since.
Hungary was a dominant soccer power from the beginning of the 19th century
Well, many people disagree on the end date. 1954, 1956 or 1970 are being
mentioned most often. They had many promising youth sides that never
fulfilled their expectations. As late as 1996 they qualified for the
Olympics with some real talented players. Where are they now? (Rhetorical
question!) Currently they have a decent u-17 side, but it is already being
mismanaged, so I (personally) doubt that this is a "new beginning".
Back to the first line. IMHO the end started when the communists seized
power in 1948. Sports became the tool of politicians, and many people in
high positions used it for their personal gratification. Sure enough,
Hungary had a great national team then, actually they had 4 great national
teams. On more than one occasion, on the same day there were 4 matches for
the national team against different opponents, Hungary won all 4 of them.
(Of course, only one was considered "official" NT match.) Four or five great
club teams, could have easily won major European trophies, but there was no
such competition, save the Central European Cup, of which they won many. It
was always "my team won", said Mihaly Farkas, head of the army (Honved), or
"my team beat yours", said Vladimir (yes!) Farkas, his son, head of the
dreaded secret police (MTK), etc. Likewise, the youth teams were divided
into spheres of influence, there was no continuity in their development.
These youth teams were trained for specific events. Once that goal was
accomplished, they were neglected. Of course, this was not a unique
situation. The Soviet Union had a similar strategy in soccer as well as in
ice hockey, or just think of the Taiwanese Little League teams. And this is
not at all unlike the situation in US youth soccer, for completely different
reasons, of course.
When Hungary qualified for the 1986 WC, there was euphoria. Yet the team was
not prepared for that event, they were only prepared for the qualifiers.
Their failure in Mexico was only a surprise to the fans. Even the extent of
the failure (0-6 vs USSR) was predicted by the soccer community, naturally
not numerically. And this is not a hindsight statement, there were many
soccer minds, who suggested ways which perhaps would have (because we will
never know) resulted in Hungary achieving a respectable showing. Same in the
1996 Olympics. Despite being drawn in the same group with the two eventual
finalists, they could have advanced, as they almost did. But the head coach
was already promised a cushy job in the Sports Ministry after the games, his
staff had loyalty only to him, so just being there was their goal, nothing
Nowadays, there is no youth or NT policy. Nobody wants those jobs, because
they only lead to embarassment and humiliation, and there is no financial
reward in them. Players and coaches rather go to Albania, Malaysia or
Vietnam (no shit!), or to lower division sides in Europe. And without any
apparent coordination by the Hungarian FA. Good luck fielding a NT.
And so on..., I am rambling.
Date: 30 May 2003 02:16
Subject: Re: Honved relegated after 87 years in top flight
On Thu, 29 May 2003 20:02:28 -0400, Paul C wrote
(in message <3ed69f41.32344357@news.CIS.DFN.DE>):
> Hungarian giants are humbled
> Thursday, 29 May 2003
> By Márton Dinnyés
> One of Hungary's most famous clubs, Kispest Honvéd FC will play in the
> second division next season after they were relegated from the 1. Liga
> last weekend. A 3-1 defeat at Zalaegerszegi TE was enough to condemn
> József Dúró's side - and end the club's 87-year stay in the top
> Footballing force
> Kispest had made their First Division debut as Kispesti Athlétikai
> Club in 1916. But despite the promise of an early cup win in 1926, it
> was not until the 1950s that the club emerged as a footballing force.
From the 1940-s Kispest always finished in the top 3-4, but no championships.
> Favourite son
> Fired by the goals of Hungarian international Ferenc Puskás, Kispest
> won their first league title in 1950. "It was one of the sweetest days
> of my life," said Puskás, who was 23 at the time. Now a suburb of
> Budapest, Kispest was then a separate town, and Puskás its favourite
One of its favorite sons. Kispest became XIX. district of Budapest on Jan. 1,
1950, before the team won its first title.
> Magical Magyars
> That triumph heralded a golden era for Kispest, who had become the
> army club following the Communist takeover after World War Two. Hence
> the name Honvéd, meaning 'soldier'. With a team including 'Magical
The word Honvéd originated from the revolution of 1848, meaning defender of
the homeland. And it is inaccurate to call it a Communist takeover. It was an
occupation by the Soviet Union in accordance with the Yalta Accord and
subsequent Four Power agreements.
> Magyars' József Bozsik, Zoltán Czibor, Sándor Kocsis and László Budai,
> as well as Puskás, they were champions five times in six seasons. They
> also toured Europe, and one match against English club Wolverhampton
> Wanderers FC in 1954 was billed as the unofficial world championship.
Well, European Championship anyway. That match inspired the European
Champions' Cup. Honvéd was champions in 49/50, 50 (fall - as they switched to
spring-fall system), 52, 54, 55 and they were leading in 56 which was not
completed because of the revolution.
> Fantastic 80s
> Subsequently, they have been less successful. Lajos Tichy brought star
> quality to the 1960s but no silverware. In fact, it was 1980 before
> Kispest reclaimed the title, although that prompted a sequence of
> eight championship victories in 13 years leading up to 1993.
Honvéd won the Hungarian Cup in 1964. And it was Lajos Tichy as a coach, who
guided the team to its first championship in 1980.
> Pride of place
> Those halcyon days were also illuminated by the presence of Hungarian
> internationals Lajos Détári and Béla Illés at the József Bozsik
> stadium as Kispest reclaimed pride of place in the domestic game. Even
> now, they are the country's fourth most titled club, with 13 league
> championships and five Hungarian Cups.
> Relegation trouble
> Which must make their current plight all the more galling. With the
> club's financial instability reflected on the pitch, performances have
> deteriorated in recent years. Seventh in 2000/01, Kispest finished
> three points above the relegation places last term in ninth position.
> Coaching changes
> Things have gone from bad to worse this season. Dúró became Kispest's
> fifth coach of the campaign, after József Fitos, Ioan Patrascu,
> caretaker duo Lajos Szurgent and Sándor Gujdár, and Tibor Óze, when he
> was appointed in April with a brief to avoid the drop. A former
> Kispest player, he does not have a full coaching licence so his
> official role is that of technical director.
A common situation in Hungary. Similar to the US, a top coaching license
(UEFA A or Pro A) can be obtained in about a week. There too, it is in the
hands of a few, and administered in a biased way. The A-license is by
invitation only, whoever the coaching maffia does not like, simply is not
afforded the opportunity to obtain one. And it does not reciprocate licences
from other UEFA administered courses. Alex Ferguson would only be a technical
> Costly defeat
> However, Kispest's fate was sealed last Friday night when they
> travelled to ZTE while Békéscsabai EFC, the club two points above
> them, played at MFC Sopron. A Kispest win and a Békéscsaba defeat
> would have lifted Dúró's team out of the bottom two, but the opposite
> happened. Despite taking the lead through Marius Sasu, Kispest went
> down 3-1 while Békéscsaba prevailed by the same margin in Sopron. For
> Kispest and their fans, the unthinkable had happened
The coach of ZTE is Peter Bozsik, son of Jozsef Bozsik. He thus is
responsible for the mortal wound inflicted on the club his father helped
bring to prominence. He is one of the brightest young coaches in Hungary
today, and can look forward to much success in the future. Incidentally, the
Bekescsaba - Sopron match was fixed in favor of the former, while the
previous week Kispest lost a match that was fixed against them. The entire
Hungarian championship is a total farce. The top two teams have the same
owner, who allegedly guides one of his teams at the expense of the other. The
handwriting at Kispest has been on the wall for several years.
Date: 31 May 2003 22:59
Subject: Re: New pics of the WC54 final
On Sat, 31 May 2003 17:37:51 -0400, MMcC wrote
(in message <email@example.com>):
> Where you at that match gaborzinho?
Yes, I was. It was my very first trip outside the "Iron Curtain" and I was
officially an interpreter with the team. My "day job" was as a translator for
the Hungarian News Agency (MTI) and my boss there was the President of the
Hungarian Football Association. Also, I was working as a scout with Honved,
and I was also used as a such by the coaching staff during the tournament.
Can you imagine, being paid to watch Brasil, Uruguay, England, Austria, etc.
play? Those were the days, I tell you! Except for the AVH (Hungarian KGB)
guys following me everywhere. I almost missed being at the final, though.
Obviously there were no more teams to be scouted by then, I had my seat
reserved from the ticket allocation. But there were some "big shots" who
arrived in the last minute from Hungary just to watch the team winning the
WC. I almost had to give up my seat to one of them, but in the last minute
the Swiss gave us more seats.
Date: 07 June 2003 16:33
Subject: Re: How many countries could you or your children play for?
On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:23:32 -0400, september underground wrote
(in message <firstname.lastname@example.org>):
> gaborzinho wrote in message
>> Myself: Hungary, Austria, Germany, Italy, Romania, Slovakia, Serbia,
>> Ukraine, Italy, Brasil, USA.
>> My children: Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Croatia, Serbia, Austria,
>> Italy, Brasil, Scotland, Portugal, France, Spain, Ukraine, USA.
>> My grandchildren: USA, Europe, Brasil.
> Once again, you can only play for the countries whose citizenship you
> have. I doubt one person could be a citizen of all those nations...
Not at the same time, of course, but this is a hypothetical situation. My
four grandparents were born in, what is today, four different countries.
Actually five. Here it goes. At the time of their birth it was Hungary, after
the dismemberment of Austria-Hungary after WWI, it became Romania (paternal
grandmother), Czechoslovakia (paternal grandfather), Yugoslavia, actually the
Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (maternal grandmother) and Austria
(maternal grandfather). Later yet, that part of Czechoslovakia became part of
the Soviet Union, then the Ukraine. I was born in Italy (just barely, the
town was, and still is, split between Yugoslavia, now Slovenia and Italy),
but my parents then were Hungarian citizens and I lived in Hungary until
1956, now I am US citizen, about to become dual US/EU citizen. Every time the
above split-ups occured, people were given a choice of which citizenship to
adopt. My grandparents had their choices, but opted for Hungarian citizenship
at the time. Several of my other relatives did not, and they still live in
Slovakia, the Ukraine, Romania and Serbia/Vojvodina. On top of that my
maternal grandfather was German national and was offered, but did not accept,
German citizenship. I am married to a Brasilian and lived there for many
years, eligible to become a citizen. My wife's backround provides for the
rest of the countries. Again, remember this is only "could have been", not a
concurrant choice. Theoretically, I have the option to seek citizenship in
those countries myself. Prior to my injury I played two matches for Hungary
U-18, so under current rules I cannot play for any other country. Back then
the rules were different, but this is a subject for a different thread. One
of my uncles used to joke when asked where he lived: "I was born in
Austria-Hungary, then I lived in Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Slovakia, the
Soviet Union then the Ukraine. Gosh, you must have moved a lot. No, I never
left Ungvar." I think it is called Uzhgorod now.