From: Gaborzinho Date: 20 November 2001 Subject: Re: Stoichkov Keeps on Tickin' In article <1f35n1e.yggzh5juwo1lNemail@example.com>, firstname.lastname@example.org (Sven Mischkies) wrote: [Lajos Detari] > Yes, while i don't really understand why a move to Frankfurt should have > been a bad decision (in general, of course if he had offers from Italy > and Spain it's a different thing, at least financially) i never > understood why he moved to Greece to a at best second rated league. :( Remember that this was in the mid-80-s when league styles were more defined compared to today. Then the Bundesliga was considered a much more physically demanding league than Serie A. Detari was not a physical player, and never liked to play against physical players. So it must have been difficult for him to commit to that league knowing this. Also, IMHO he could have gotten a better deal in Italy, the money in Germany wasn't as good then. But apparently Komora got more out of him signing with Eintracht. An interesting parallel was Zoltan Varga in 1968. An absolutely brilliant ball handler who signed with Hertha, who was constantly fighting relegation. Barcelona wanted him badly, but then ended up signing Cruyff. Varga was then signed by Ajax as Cruyff's replacement. His goals were "goal of the year" types, some actually were. You can still see them on some Dutch highlight tapes. His manager was a crook, who took advantage of Varga not being familiar with the system, languages, contracts, etc. Varga, who was generally regarded as better than Florian Albert (Gold Ball 67), had a career that did not do his talent justice. But he was much smarter than Detari, so financially he is secure. Actually still maintains residences both in Budapest and München to tend to his business interests outside football. > >> I guess Lajos (or Döme, as he is > > > Döme? That was/is his nickname since he was 8 years old. > >> called) never even challenged it. So he will end up having to work for the >> rest of his life. What a pity. > > > Sad story. :(( I can tell you many others like this. Most of those were the products of the environment that existed under communist rule as it related to the game of football. Puskas' generation had no problem handling the contradictions as they saw the pre-communist times. For those born after the war, this was not the case. Besides Varga, Andras Töröcsik, Lajos Kocsis and several others had talents that could have carried them to the top of the football world. They blew it. When one is held back by the system and they know that their talents are wasted, they often turn to alcohol, drugs, or just simply give up. > > When he got ripped off by his former manager and by his wife, then he > probably won't have the brain to become a great coach. Not necessarily. I have known many players who were unable to handle anything other than football. Some were fortunate to have good wives (Puskas, Kocsis, Bozsik, etc.) or good managers who did everything for them off the field. Some were fighting their environment all their lives and took some time to get settled. What Detari needs now is some stability. With that he will hopefully find people who can help him, not just take advantage of him. And he will hopefully get smarter also. > > > Btw: As our manager you should post more often. :) Esp. as your posts > are usually great. :) > Usually? I thought they were always great! ;-) Seriously, I do a great deal of travelling. For a while I had a laptop, but I threw it away. Now I don't even have a cell phone. So when I'm gone, I'm out of circulation. I just returned from Europe and will be here until after the holidays. I have practice/training with my various teams every day, matches on weekends. During the day I watch tapes. When I don't do any of these, I go to the pubs with my friends and talk about football. The older we get, the better we used to be. If I still have time I go watch my daughter play, my son retired from playing already. If I still have time, I post to this and some other ng-s. ======================================================================= From: Gaborzinho Date: 22 October 2001 Subject: Re: Stoichkov Keeps on Tickin' In article <email@example.com>, "Lléo"
wrote: [Florian Albert] > Did he have anything to do with Dori Kruschner? He coached Flamengo in the > mid-30s, and is said to have brought tactical notions to Brasilian players. > On the same subject, another Hungarian to coach a Brasilian team was Bela > Gutman, who won the Paulista league of 1957 with S?o Paulo, and went on to > win the Champions Cup with Benfica. He'd also coach Milan and Honved. The mid 30-s was slightly before Florian Albert's time. He just celebrated his 60th birthday with a gala match in Hungary. I was going to fly there on Sep. 11, but because of the WTC attack I did not get there until the following Tue. The match was on Sunday, so despite two months' of advance planning I missed the whole show. :-( Florian Albert was the player, who in the 1966 WC played a major role in defeating, thus eliminating, Brasil. His goal, when he dribbled through the entire Brasil defense, lokks as good today as it looked back then. Flamengo wanted to sign him, but the communist government did not allow him to leave, except for a short time. He participated in some exhibition matches with Flamengo and performed spectacularly. The following year he was named European Player of the Year (Gold Ball), and was one of the 4 Hungarian starting players representing the "Rest of the World" against Brasil in 1968 in Rio. The people described below were all present as guests of honor by CBF, except for Kurschner, who probably was dead by then. Albert also had some brilliant matches in the 1962 WC, particularly the one against England, that Hungary won 2-1, with Albert scoring the game winner. His club team Ferencvaros won a bunch of championships with him, and in 1967 the also won the Fair's Cup, predecessor of the UEFA cup. Kurschner Dori (Izidor) was a member of the club MTK, played for the National Team also. He lived in Switzerland, then moved to Brasil, where he employed the defensive Swiss-bolt formation. I heard he was successful, even though I never met him, nor did I see any of his teams play. Bela Guttmann, also a former MTK player, is a different story. He took over Kispest-Honved from Ferenc Puskas Sr., father of the famous player. In one match he wanted to substitute a defender, but Puskas (the player) told him to stay. Guttmann quit, saying that he lost the respect of the players. (It was funny, he left the bench, went into the stands, lit a cigar and started to read a horse racing magazine, He only rejoined his team in the locker room after the match to announce his resignation, then took the street-car home.) He then went to Holland and won a championship with Enschede, then to Italy where he won with AC Milan. Then he moved to Uruguay and also won with Penarol, then the Campeonato Paulista with Sao Paulo, Portuguese championships with Porto and Benfica. He is credited with discovering Eusebio and won the EC twice with Benfica. One of these, ironically, against Puskas' Real Madrid, despite Puskas scoring all 3 of RM's goals in a 5-3 defeat. After that match in Brussels the "Hungarian contingent" had dinner together. Besides Guttmann and Puskas this included Emil Osterreicher (General manager of RM), Gyula Mandi (more about him below), Lajos Czeizler (who was a coach in Sweden), Jeno Kalmar (one-time coach at Honved, then a coach in Spain), Nandor Hidegkuti (center forward on Hungary's Gold Team, then a coach of Fiorentina in Italy), Istvan Solti (General manager of Internazionale) and some others. The above incident did come up during the course of the evening, but neither party attached any significance to it by then. When Puskas started his career as a coach, he often called Guttmann for advice. Guttmann was also the coach who lead Honved in 1956 on their "illegal" tour of Brasil, then ended up staying there. Gyula Mandi was also a player for MTK. He was an assistant coach of the National Team 1950-56. In 1958 he went to Brasil and became the coach of FC America. He did OK, but could not get used to the climate there.